Hello Hadit,
It's great to have the freedom to TALK.
To say what you think whether it is "right" or "wrong".
I hope your family notices how happy true freedom of religion makes you.
Maeve
not a captive
JoinedPosts by not a captive
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65
Making the leap - lurker to member - Hello!
by Hadit inive been lurking here for the past couple of months since i started researching the organization.
i dont have many people to talk to and its been a saving grace to read your posts.. i dont really know where to start so here i go.
its been a long journey getting here and it looks as if i still have a long ways to go to get somewhere healthy, stable and strong.
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Getting into Arguments with JW's...
by ForbiddenFruit ini'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.
now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.
if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.
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not a captive
Of course Abraham didn't understand at the time --that is precisely the point! Abraham had to attempt a new command. Abraham was the agent of change that Jehovah used, MadJ.
I don't claim an insight that Abraham didn't teach to "those of his household" when he wrote the account. The insight he had came after Jehovah intervened. There had to be a first time the concept was defined. Gen. 18:19
None of us could have understood what Jehavah was asking of us without this amazing experience.How would Jephthah understand what a true burnt offering was? See, for Abraham it wasn't an empty gesture as he co related it with the only point of reference he had at that time--killing. But the point was spiritual not carnal. Living for Christ is dying to ourselves. And you and I are supposed to be a burnt offering in just the same way that Isaac was. Roman 12:1,2 shows that this is so.
You know MadJ, the brothers that dealt with me were kind with only a few lapses. I have said as much. They recognized the name of God was more important to me than anything else. The references from the Bible and also the larger context of his giving his son but not killing his son is the accurate reading of John 3:16.
What the scriptures actually have written would free Jehovah from the mire of contradictory interpretations, the lies that exist in all churches--not just the Witnesses--about God capriciously abandoning of the principles he was trying to teach us humans. Most people inside and outside the churches don't trust the old testament God.
The real issue in the end was that the brothers couln't let simple reliance on the Bible and Holy Spirit would allow a person to understand what Abraham had obviously conveyed to others. Jephthah got it, Jesus got it, Paul got it and doubtess many others. Why am I not allowed to understand it?
They made it clear that the issue was not Jehovah--for they were not concerned nor did they address that. They wanted me to wait for the Slave to say it.
Thanks for the agape--same to you. Maeve
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I'm Very Encouraged...
by Cthulhu inby the fact that in under one day we have 2 new members on the board, hadit and thor.
that people are leaving that nutty religion and doing so in a rather public manner is a wonderful thing so far as i am concerned.
if you two happen to read this, hadit and thor, please know that seeing you here has made my day!.
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not a captive
Great!
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Why are all religions (including J.W.'s) afraid to perform the "Elijah test" recorded at 1 Kings 18:21-39?
by StoneWall into set the stage this was were elijah had the people gathered together at mt.carmel,along with the.
450 prophets of baal and the 400 prophets of the sacred pole.
it was a test to prove to the people .
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not a captive
Hello, Tammy-- I came home from work . I read your post . Now I feel ! Thanks, Maeve
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Getting into Arguments with JW's...
by ForbiddenFruit ini'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.
now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.
if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.
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not a captive
Abraham is not Jehovah. The record shows that he didn't know what was going on a lot of the time --The bible story book says as much. It says he didn't understand mMadJ.
Apparently you don't understand either. From the beginning you have insisted on vindicating a man's actions as though Abraham were more important than Jehovah. You have never indicated that you looked up the information in the books you said the brothers like to use. That is whatbegan this exchange. You said that JW's love to do research. MadJ you have not shown a steady concern for the topic: Why does the Society counter its own reasoning on child sacrifice when they know that this is contrary to God's own ways and teachings.
Worship the literature MadJ. But I know that Jehovah taught that giving yourself fully ,as a burnt offering , is not an empty gesture. This event elicited an action and an expression that could not be understood except through this event. But we are not agreeing if it still delights you to say that God didn't know the difference between one word and another. He did--but Abraham didn't until God stopped him.
I am done.
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Jehovah and the Munchausen Syndrome
by Terry inwhat is munchausen by proxy syndrome?.
one of the most harmful forms of child abuse, munchausen by proxy syndrome was named after baron von munchausen, an eighteenth-century german dignitary known for telling outlandish stories.
a parent will induce illness or injury in their own child and then take the victim in to the hospital to be seen as the heroic savior.. typically, the perpetrator feels satisfied when he or she has the attention and sympathy of doctors, nurses, and others who come into contact with him or her and the child.. because the parent or caregiver appears to be so caring and attentive, often no one suspects any wrongdoing.. .
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not a captive
Harm as we humans know it wasn't done to God in the story of the fall from fellowship with the maker of it all.The immediate effects the old story tells is of the man blaming the woman, rough birthings and male domination while he works hard to live. There is jealousy and murder, polygamy. God is portrayed as giving wise advise to a sullen Cain shortly before he kills his brother" Why is your face all lowered down--there is sin crouching at your door. It will get the mastery over you if you don't watch out. If you turn to doing good won't there be exultation?" Is this so bad? Is it possible that this spiritual fall did precipitate sickness and death as a natural consequence? Jesus healed sin and connected it often to physical soundness.
"Ill will never spoke well" goes the saying. It seems that much of the wretched state of affairs is blamed on the one who made us. My kids used to fuss at me when I would catch them in some chicanery when they were little:"You got us in trouble" the boys would say. No, I only caught them at it.
If Jesus knew better than we do the ancient versions gathered from old tellings written in rough runic scrawls, then he had a different take on god than a llot of people. In fact he likened the loving treatment of our fellow humans to loving God:"Love the Lord your God with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment And the second is like it: love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matt. 22:37-40
What if the old tale is saying that we should listen to the one who made the beautiful earth that so many posted about a few days ago? We are not gods enough to know what will happen if we poke a hole in the ocean floor and let the black oil leak out that way. We pee in our own springs.We wreck almost everything we touch. How do we rail at God?
Who can know the way it really started? The story doesn't reflect a bunch of kind folks. As has been pointed out elsewhere, people lived in walled cities and gang-raped strangers for entertainment.
Isn't there some evidence that Jesus was a kind man? Why did he speak well of the one he refered to as his father , the one from the old times?
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Getting into Arguments with JW's...
by ForbiddenFruit ini'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.
now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.
if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.
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not a captive
You have said it beautifully, MadJ! "God told Abraham to take Isaac to the mountain as a gesture of faith."
There was no way to name this depth of trust, soul-searching, faith and uncertain/certainty of obedience. The outcome would be attached to the word that Jehovah spoke. And that word would not be could not be the word that had a knife slash in it. It is a miracle.
As Paul once said, "we teach what scripture calls: the things that no eye has seen and no ear has heard, things beyond the mind of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him. These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depths of everthing, even the depths of God. After all the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God." 1 Cor. 2:9-11
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Getting into Arguments with JW's...
by ForbiddenFruit ini'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.
now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.
if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.
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not a captive
MadJ, does the original text mean anything to you? Because in the great critical shreddings that the early books of the Bible have been subject to both over their physical lives and in th critcal land of scholars, this particular account appears to have been left unmolested by ancient editors. If that is so then I would suppose the providence of its ancient words should be given their due. If you think I am a fanatic it is only because I will not give ground when it was who? the WTS that insisted we look at the original intention. Tell me why you change the words in Jehovah's mouth in this case.
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LOVE your ENEMIES: where Jesus goes wrong
by Terry inmatthew 5:44 "but i say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,.
luke 6:35 "but love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return.
the most radical teaching attributed to jesus has implications if followed.. an invading hoarde of mongols would not be resisted.. a christian husband would not only allow his wife and daughters to be raped; he would be compelled to forgive the rapist, pray for him and offer.
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not a captive
I think Jesus understood what he was saying. He suffered the effects of malevolence. Why would those who came after,of which there is ample testimony from secular writers(Pliny for one)that fairly simple folk suffered the same effects because they tried to simply live in a loving way.
So of Jesus we can even say that with screwed up gospels and rotten councils that followed he got his point across. Love God with your whole heart, mind, soul and strength and your neighbor as your self. I don't even have to be literate to get it. Most of his followers weren't (aren't??).
The WTS wasn't where I learned about Jesus anyway--their Jesus is a manicured lawn--no, an astro turf. Impervious and perfect in a disturbing way.
The love I grew up with was more fearful and not as generous as Jesus. He washed Judas' feet and was able to eat and swallow his food next to that man. That is a different love. Our definition of love probably doesn't fit here.
Thomas Merton is who I read before the WTS got me. He fought the Catholic Church over this kind of love during Vietnam.
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Getting into Arguments with JW's...
by ForbiddenFruit ini'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.
now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.
if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.
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not a captive
Wait---I think we may have found common ground! --if that is the point.
The fact that "burnt offerring" as regards a human WAS UNDERSTOOD at the time of Jephthah's promise shows that it was having its reality, its definition established by the test. Please think why the Society acknowledged that it -olah--had no connection in its original root with the action of zebach . They know that the wordshave an affinity in worship. But one describes the slashing and letting of blood--that word is not "burnt offering.